The king asked Nāgasena, “Is there anything in the world arising spontaneously?” Then Nāgasena replied, “There is nothing in this world that arises spontaneously. All things originate through causes and conditions.” ..If there is no body, there is also no touch of softness and smoothness; if there is no mind, there is also no thinking of mind objects. Due to no thinking of mind objects, there is no contact or touch; due to no contact, there is no painful or pleasant feelings; due to no painful or pleasant feelings, there is no craving; due to no craving, there is no lustful desire; due to no lustful desire, there is no embryo; due to no embryo, there is no birth; due to no birth, there is no old age; due to no old age, there is no sickness; due to no sickness, there is no death; due to no death, there is no grief; due to no grief, there is no lamentation; due to no lamentation, there is no suffering in the inner heart. So abandoning all such sufferings, one obtains the Path of nirvana.”

“Excellent, Nāgasena.”

(1) Simile of the hall

Then Nāgasena asked the king, “What do you think, did this great hall in which you are sitting come spontaneously into being or come into being owing to the endeavor of men?”

“It is due to the moil and toil of men. The woods come from forest, the clay and mud come from earth.”

Nāgasena said, “It is the same with regard to a person. The combination of eighteen dhatus or twelve ayatanas is called a person. Therefore there is nothing that arises spontaneously. There must be causes and conditions for a thing to arise.”

(2) Simile of earthen ware pot

Then Nāgasena gave a simile, “It is just like a potter who makes earthen-wares. He takes water and earth, makes them into mud, shapes them into various forms and fires them into various earthen-wares. The mud itself cannot become earthen-ware. There must be man’s effort and the burning of wood before it becomes earthen-ware. There is nothing that arises spontaneously in this world.”

(3) Simile of music

Nāgasena again gave a simile and said to the king, “It is like a lute (vina).

If there is no string, no frame, no one to play it, can it produce any sounds?”

“Certainly not Sir.” said the king.

“Then, if there is a lute with string, frame and there is also a man to play it, can it produce sounds?”

“Yes, it can.”

“Thus, there is nothing that arises spontaneously in this world. There must be causes and conditions for a thing to arise.”

(4) Simile of making fire

Nāgasena said to the king, “It is like making fire by rubbing two sticks together. If there are no sticks, no human effort or exertion, could there be fire?”

“Certainly not.”

“If there are two sticks and also human effort or exertion, could there be fire?”

“Yes, there could be fire.”

“Thus there is nothing that arises spontaneously in this world. There must be causes and conditions for a thing to arise.”

(5) Simile of fire

Nāgasena asked the king, “It is like a lens without a person holding it, and without the sun, or a clear sky, could it produce fire?”

“Certainly not.”

“Then if there is a person holding the lens, and there is the sun and clear sky, can it produce fire?”

“Yes, it can produce fire.”

“Thus, there is nothing in this world that arises spontaneously. There must be causes and conditions for a thing to arise.”

(6) Simile of the image

Nāgasena asked the king again, “Suppose a man has no mirror, and there is also no light, but he wants to see himself in the mirror. Can he see his own image?”

“No, he cannot see his own image.”

“But, if there is a mirror, light and also a person looking at the mirror, can he see his own image?”

“Yes, he can see his own image.”

“Thus, there is nothing in this world that arises spontaneously. There must be causes and conditions for a thing to arise.”

“Excellent, Nāgasena.”

The king further asked Nāgasena saying, “Is there a soul in an ordinary person?” Nāgasena replied, “By analysis and examination, there is no soul in an ordinary person. What can we call a soul?”

“Is the life or living principle in the body of a person called a soul?” asked the king. Then Nāgasena asked the king, “Can the living principle in a person see the material forms through eyes, hear sounds through the ears, smell odors through nose, taste flavors through tongue, feel smoothness and softness through body, and think over some objects with mind?”

“Yes it could.”

Then Nāgasena said, “Now you and I are sitting in this palace with windows open to the four directions. Is it possible for us to see what we want to see through any window we like?”

“Yes, we can.”

Nāgasena said, (a) “Suppose, the living principle in the body of a person can see through any orifice of the body freely, can it see the material forms through the eyes? Can it see the material forms through the ears? Can it see the material forms through the nose? Can it see the material forms through the mouth? Can it see the material forms through the body? Can it see the material forms through the mind?”

“No, it cannot.”

(b) “Suppose, the living principle is in the ear, then can it hear sounds through the ears? Can it see material forms through the ears? Can it smell odors both good and bad through the ears? Can it taste flavors with the ears? Can it feel softness and smoothness with the ears? Can it think over something using the ears?”

(c) “Suppose, the living principle is in the nose, then can it smell both good and bad odors through the nose? Can it see material forms through the nose? Can it hear sounds through the nose? Can it taste flavors with the nose? Can it feel smoothness and softness with the nose? Can it think over something with the nose?”

(d) “Suppose, the living principle is in the mouth, then can it taste flavors through the mouth? Can it see the material forms through the mouth? Can it hear sounds with the mouth? Can it smell good and bad odors with the mouth? Can it feel smoothness and softness through the mouth? Can it think over something with the mouth?”

(e) “Suppose, the living principle is in the body, then can it feel smoothness and softness through the body? Can it see the material forms through the body? Can it hear sounds through the body? Can it smell both good and bad odors through the body? Can it taste flavors through the body? Can it think over something with the body?”

(f) “Suppose the living principle is in the mind, then can it think over something with the mind? Can it see material forms through the mind? Can it hear sounds with the mind? Can it smell good and bad odors with the mind? Can it taste flavors with the mind? Can it feel smoothness and softness with the mind?”

“No, it cannot,” replied the king.

Then Nāgasena said, “What you, great king, have said now and previous do not agree. Now, great king, you and I are sitting here in the palace. If the windows of the four directions are to be removed, then can our eyesight reach far and wide?”

“Yes, it can reach far and wide.”

“Suppose, the living principle is in the body, can it see far and wide when the doors (dvara) of eye are removed? Can it hear distant sounds when the doors of ear are cut off and enlarged?

Can it smell distant odors when the nose is cut off and enlarged? Can it taste more flavors when the mouth is removed and enlarged? Can it feel softness and smoothness when the skin of the body is cut off? Is it able to (know the Dharma) more extensively when the mind is removed?”

“No, it cannot.” replied the king.

“What you, great king, have said now and previous do not agree.”

Then Nāgasena asked the king, “If your treasurer or storekeeper comes and stands in front of you, can you know that he stands in front of you?”

“Yes, I know.”

“If the treasurer comes into the king’s palace, does he know that he has entered the king’s palace?”

“Yes, of course, he knows.”

“Then, suppose, the living principle is in the body of a person, can it know sweetness, or sourness, or acidity, or saltiness, or pungency, or astringency when anything possessing flavor is laid upon the tongue?”

“Yes, it would know it.”

“What you, great king, have said now and previous do not agree.”

Then Nāgasena gave a simile, “It is like a man drinking wine, if the man were to be put upside down into a big jar full of wine to taste the flavor of the wine, could the man know the flavor of the wine?”

“No, he could not.”

“But why does he not know the flavor?”

“Because the wine could not get into his mouth, to the tongue, so he could not know the flavor of the wine.”

“What you, great king, have said now and previous do not agree.”

Then the king said, “I am not capable of discussing such reasoning. Please, explain to me how the matter stands.”

Nāgasena said, “When a person sees the material forms with his own eyes, then the eye-consciousness arises. Due to the arising of eye-consciousness, there arise painful or pleasant feelings. Then the mind and thoughts come into contact. It is the same with regard to ears, nose, tongue, body, and mind. When the mind comes in contact with mind-objects, then mind-consciousness arises; then due to the arising of mind-consciousness, there arise painful and pleasant feelings. From painful and pleasant feelings, there arise thoughts; from thoughts, there arises mindfulness. Thus it continues without a soul.”

“Excellent, Nāgasena.”